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Location: Iowa, United States

61 years old (pretty old for a blogger) proud to be a grandpa

Wednesday, March 22, 2006

How to Discuss Something

We spend a lot of time during arguments and discussions misrepresenting the other persons point of view, burlesquing it, and ascribing ulterior motives that often not much gets accomplished. It occurs to me that the most fruitful and satisfying discussions I’ve had with those I disagree with have been those instances where we both understand clearly each other’s point of view. I once saw Mortimer Adler (“The Great Books” guy with whom I disagree, respectfully, on many things) explain how he set up the ground rules for debate in his classroom: whenever someone made a point, it wasn’t allowed to be challenged until the opposing speaker was able to rephrase the first speaker’s argument to the first speaker’s satisfaction. To do this, the opponent would have to say, “Do I understand you to say that ………” and this would be followed by the paraphrase. When the first speaker assented to the opponent’s version, then the opponent would be allowed to continue with his rebuttal. This, of course, is not the way even formal debates are conducted but it is the way that productive and intelligent conversation can come about.
****
Wrong:
First Person: I think that the Roe v. Wade decision was unsupportable from a constitutional standpoint.
Second Person: I disagree. I believe a woman has a right to choose.
****
Right:
First Person: I think that the Roe v. Wade decision was unsupportable from a constitutional standpoint.
Second Person: Do I understand you to say that you don’t agree with a woman’s right to choose?
First Person: No, that’s not the point I wished to make.
Second Person: Do I understand you to say that the Supreme Court overreached its authority in making the decision?
First Person: That’s also not what I intended to convey.
Second Person: Do I understand you to say that the Supreme Court did not interpret the constitution correctly in this instance?
First Person: Yes.

8 Comments:

Blogger Blogball said...

Yes Unca, it would be refreshing to hear people discuss issues like in your example number two.

Here are a couple of observations that I have noticed happening during a heated discussion or debate.

Most people are thinking about what they are going to say in rebuttal before listening and thinking about the person’s entire statement.

Jumping to Conclusions:
Assumption that if anyone has a very conservative view on a certain topic they must be
Nazi like.

Assumption that if anyone has a very liberal view on a certain topic they must be a pinko commie.

5:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unca, you'vr provided a good example of what Adler (and you also I presume) have in mind for a productive "debate".
In the home setting it reminds me of:

Wife: I don't have any clothes.
Husband: Are you saying your closet is completely empty?
Wife: No, Silly. You know what I mean.
Husband: Are you saying that there are clothes in your closet but they are all unwearable?
Wife: I'm saying that, yes, most of them are either out-of-style, or they don't fit me or I'm just plain sick of them.
Husband: I see. And how can this situation be remedied if we have no funds for such.
Wife: We have funds, but you're just using them for the wrong things!
Husband: A mortgage payment, is that a "wrong thing?"
Wife: I'm so mad! (beats him over the head with a People magazine, then stabs him.

Anyway, sometimes proper debating still doesn't solve the problem.:-)

4:38 PM  
Blogger unca said...

Well, I gotta admit, you're scenerio is much more realistic than anything Adler had in mind. So much for rational discourse I wonder if Mortimer was married.

4:09 PM  
Blogger jay are said...

this sure makes me wonder who "anonymous" is. I don't think it's MY husband, though, because I'm not a huge fan of shopping. It better not be my husband :)

Anyway, totally agree with your post. In my family, we were never taught how to discuss anything or how to calmly hear the other person's point of view without taking it (instantly) personally. It was always about "attack" and "defend". It's taken a lot of years and a matter of being married into a family of debaters and non-attackers to learn (slowly) how this works.
I remember a long time ago my brother-in-law making the comment, just like you mentioned here, that if he's discussing something with someone and they can't explain to him his own point of view then he won't continue the discussion. This makes so much sense. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way.
Thanks for the reminder.

11:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

unca: there is a movie out now (at least it is here) called, "thank you for smoking." it's about a lobbyist for the tobacco companies, pre-congressional hearings. the character (who is remarkably likable) discusses the points of debating. i found the points and the movie quite interesting and entertaining.

9:51 AM  
Blogger unca said...

Si, yeah, I read the book this is based on (Christopher Buckley, I think). I'm looking forward to seeing the movie and I'll watch for the debate conversation.

6:33 PM  
Blogger Rob said...

Well, rats. Blogger ate my comment. Since it was so brilliant, I'll post it again, but shorter this time.

Adler's debate thing is pretty much exactly like an "empathy exercise" Hannah and I were taught in counseling. Rather than counter with any statements of your own, you first re-verbalize the other's statement until they agree you have understood their point.

7:51 PM  
Blogger unca said...

Bryan-
Yes, you've said it in one sentence. Of course, having Mortimer say it, lends an air of philosophicaly credibility.

7:20 AM  

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